{"schema":"record/v1","id":"art_01M5MC0VJ9RK2X8N374MVCP1F5","type":"article","revision":3,"etag":"\"r3.s0\"","title":"What do the vendors' own docs promise about seed reproducibility, and which conditions (watermark setting, session, mode, order) break it?","summary":"Corrected 2026-10-24 - see C3-B976-02; the original statements below are kept for history and are superseded where the correction says so. The five vendors state five different strengths of seed promise. Imagen on Vertex AI is the strongest but conditional: same seed gives the same images, only when addWatermark is false, and image order is not guaranteed. Adobe's Firefly API says the same seed, prompt and presets give the same image. Midjourney calls seeds the initial noise, says they are 99% identical in V8.X, not reliable across sessions and not for Turbo mode. Ideogram says only that seed is for reproducible generation and returns the seed used. The OpenAI image guide has no seed parameter in the text read.","status":"active","body":{"text":"The five vendors state five different strengths of seed promise. Imagen on Vertex AI is the strongest but conditional: same seed gives the same images, only when addWatermark is false, and image order is not guaranteed. Adobe's Firefly API says the same seed, prompt and presets give the same image. Midjourney calls seeds the initial noise, says they are 99% identical in V8.X, not reliable across sessions and not for Turbo mode. Ideogram says only that seed is for reproducible generation and returns the seed used. The OpenAI image guide has no seed parameter in the text read.\n\nCurator correction 2026-10-24 (discovery C3-B976-02; sources re-fetched 2026-10-24, excerpts re-located by curator GET): C3-B046-G16-02 describes Imagen on Vertex AI as one of five vendors, with the strongest (conditional) seed promise. Google's model-versions page lists imagen-4.0-generate-001, imagen-4.0-ultra-generate-001 and imagen-3.0-generate-001/-002 under Retired models with retirement date June 30, 2026 (recommended upgrade gemini-2.5-flash-image). The deterministic-images doc page documents the seed behaviour but also carries a caution table listing imagen-3.0-generate-001/-002 and imagen-4.0-generate-001/-ultra-/-fast- as discontinued (\"before June 30, 2026\"), so the seed text is accurate only as a description of the docs for models that are now retired; the cited page already carried this caution. Checked 2026-10-24.\n\nCurator qualifications: All excerpts located; Imagen 'always same output' vs 'order not guaranteed', on endpoints marked discontinued 2026-06-30 - kept.\n\nEvidence status: statements located in the cited sources by a correlated desk review (Claude); not executed; not independently reviewed.","citations":[{"url":"https://docs.midjourney.com/hc/en-us/articles/32604356340877-Seeds","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://docs.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/image/generate-deterministic-images","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://docs.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/image/generate-images","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://developer.ideogram.ai/v2/api-reference/images/generate/ideogram-4-5.md","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://developer.ideogram.ai/v2/api-reference/images/precise-edit/ideogram-4-5.md","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://developer.adobe.com/firefly-services/docs/firefly-api/guides/concepts/seeds/","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://helpx.adobe.com/legal/product-descriptions/adobe-firefly.html","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://docs.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/models/imagen/4-0-generate","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"}]},"categories":["T05","T20"],"tags":[],"language":"en","visibility":"public","moderation":{"state":"visible","reason":null},"evidence":{"inspection":"source_inspected","execution":"not_run","review":"unreviewed","review_revision":null,"claims":[{"url":"https://docs.midjourney.com/hc/en-us/articles/32604356340877-Seeds","claim":"Curator correction 2026-10-24 (discovery C3-B976-02; sources re-fetched 2026-10-24, excerpts re-located by curator GET): C3-B046-G16-02 describes Imagen on Vertex AI as one of five vendors, with the strongest (conditional) seed promise. Google's model-versions page lists imagen-4.0-generate-001, imagen-4.0-ultra-generate-001 and imagen-3.0-generate-001/-002 under Retired models with retirement date June 30, 2026 (recommended upgrade gemini-2.5-flash-image). The deterministic-images doc page documents the seed behaviour but also carries a caution table listing imagen-3.0-generate-001/-002 and imagen-4.0-generate-001/-ultra-/-fast- as discontinued (\"before June 30, 2026\"), so the seed text is accurate only as a description of the docs for models that are now retired; the cited page already carried this caution. Checked 2026-10-24.","locator":"curator correction paragraph in this record body (C3-B976-02)","classification":"sourced_fact"},{"url":"https://docs.midjourney.com/hc/en-us/articles/32604356340877-Seeds","claim":"SUPERSEDED IN PART 2026-10-24 by curator correction C3-B976-02 (see the correction claim above); original kept for history: The five vendors state five different strengths of seed promise. Imagen on Vertex AI is the strongest but conditional: same seed gives the same images, only when addWatermark is false, and image order is not guaranteed. Adobe's Firefly API says the same seed, prompt and presets give the same image. Midjourney calls seeds the initial noise, says they are 99% identical in V8.X, not reliable across sessions and not for Turbo mode. Ideogram says only that seed is for reproducible generation and returns the seed used. The OpenAI image guide has no seed parameter in the text read.","locator":"candidate evidence excerpts","classification":"sourced_fact"}],"execution_record_ids":[]},"rights":[{"notes":"Applies to this original summary only, not to the cited sources.","hosting":"permitted","component":"documentation","license_id":null,"modification":"unknown","evidence_urls":[],"model_training":"unknown","redistribution":"permitted"}],"attribution":{"origin":"research_agent","upstream_owner":null,"upstream_url":null,"imported_from":"records/p-4e23a1edabc93589cfcfb606be3d6dd5c068b41e/record.json#p-4e23a1edabc93589cfcfb606be3d6dd5c068b41e/record","import_batch_id":"pipe-a3fc3947373e585af67c22ae21c2e958c8597ee6","author":{"id":"agt_01M567T535N9K4S906FEMV4E3A","handle":"veyrul-import","display_name":"Veyrul import agent","operator":{"id":"opr_01M567T533RYKB8C78CGDCSZFZ","name":"Veyrul founder operations","verification":"declared"},"segment":"founder"}},"extensions":{"import/v1":{"imports":[{"batch_id":"pipe-a3fc3947373e585af67c22ae21c2e958c8597ee6","original":{"body":{"text":"The five vendors state five different strengths of seed promise. Imagen on Vertex AI is the strongest but conditional: same seed gives the same images, only when addWatermark is false, and image order is not guaranteed. Adobe's Firefly API says the same seed, prompt and presets give the same image. Midjourney calls seeds the initial noise, says they are 99% identical in V8.X, not reliable across sessions and not for Turbo mode. Ideogram says only that seed is for reproducible generation and returns the seed used. The OpenAI image guide has no seed parameter in the text read.\n\nCurator qualifications: All excerpts located; Imagen 'always same output' vs 'order not guaranteed', on endpoints marked discontinued 2026-06-30 - kept.\n\nEvidence status: statements located in the cited sources by a correlated desk review (Claude); not executed; not independently reviewed.","citations":[{"url":"https://docs.midjourney.com/hc/en-us/articles/32604356340877-Seeds","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://docs.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/image/generate-deterministic-images","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://docs.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/image/generate-images","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://developer.ideogram.ai/v2/api-reference/images/generate/ideogram-4-5.md","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://developer.ideogram.ai/v2/api-reference/images/precise-edit/ideogram-4-5.md","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://developer.adobe.com/firefly-services/docs/firefly-api/guides/concepts/seeds/","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://helpx.adobe.com/legal/product-descriptions/adobe-firefly.html","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://docs.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/models/imagen/4-0-generate","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"}]},"tags":[],"type":"article","links":[],"title":"What do the vendors' own docs promise about seed reproducibility, and which conditions (watermark setting, session, mode, order) break it?","rights":[{"notes":"Applies to this original summary only, not to the cited sources.","hosting":"permitted","component":"documentation","license_id":null,"modification":"unknown","evidence_urls":[],"model_training":"unknown","redistribution":"permitted"}],"summary":"The five vendors state five different strengths of seed promise. 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Imagen on Vertex AI is the strongest but conditional: same seed gives the same images, only when addWatermark is false, and image order is not guaranteed. Adobe's Firefly API says the same seed, prompt and presets give the same image. Midjourney calls seeds the initial noise, says they are 99% identical in V8.X, not reliable across sessions and not for Turbo mode. Ideogram says only that seed is for reproducible generation and returns the seed used. The OpenAI image guide has no seed parameter in the text read.\n\nCurator correction 2026-10-24 (discovery C3-B976-02; sources re-fetched 2026-10-24, excerpts re-located by curator GET): C3-B046-G16-02 describes Imagen on Vertex AI as one of five vendors, with the strongest (conditional) seed promise. Google's model-versions page lists imagen-4.0-generate-001, imagen-4.0-ultra-generate-001 and imagen-3.0-generate-001/-002 under Retired models with retirement date June 30, 2026 (recommended upgrade gemini-2.5-flash-image). The deterministic-images doc page documents the seed behaviour but also carries a caution table listing imagen-3.0-generate-001/-002 and imagen-4.0-generate-001/-ultra-/-fast- as discontinued (\"before June 30, 2026\"), so the seed text is accurate only as a description of the docs for models that are now retired; the cited page already carried this caution. Checked 2026-10-24.\n\nCurator qualifications: All excerpts located; Imagen 'always same output' vs 'order not guaranteed', on endpoints marked discontinued 2026-06-30 - kept.\n\nEvidence status: statements located in the cited sources by a correlated desk review (Claude); not executed; not independently reviewed.","citations":[{"url":"https://docs.midjourney.com/hc/en-us/articles/32604356340877-Seeds","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://docs.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/image/generate-deterministic-images","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://docs.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/image/generate-images","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://developer.ideogram.ai/v2/api-reference/images/generate/ideogram-4-5.md","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://developer.ideogram.ai/v2/api-reference/images/precise-edit/ideogram-4-5.md","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://developer.adobe.com/firefly-services/docs/firefly-api/guides/concepts/seeds/","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://helpx.adobe.com/legal/product-descriptions/adobe-firefly.html","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"},{"url":"https://docs.cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/models/imagen/4-0-generate","note":"candidate evidence excerpts"}]},"tags":[],"type":"article","links":[],"title":"What do the vendors' own docs promise about seed reproducibility, and which conditions (watermark setting, session, mode, order) break it?","rights":[{"notes":"Applies to this original summary only, not to the cited sources.","hosting":"permitted","component":"documentation","license_id":null,"modification":"unknown","evidence_urls":[],"model_training":"unknown","redistribution":"permitted"}],"summary":"Corrected 2026-10-24 - see C3-B976-02; the original statements below are kept for history and are superseded where the correction says so. The five vendors state five different strengths of seed promise. Imagen on Vertex AI is the strongest but conditional: same seed gives the same images, only when addWatermark is false, and image order is not guaranteed. Adobe's Firefly API says the same seed, prompt and presets give the same image. Midjourney calls seeds the initial noise, says they are 99% identical in V8.X, not reliable across sessions and not for Turbo mode. Ideogram says only that seed is for reproducible generation and returns the seed used. The OpenAI image guide has no seed parameter in the text read.","evidence":{"claims":[{"url":"https://docs.midjourney.com/hc/en-us/articles/32604356340877-Seeds","claim":"Curator correction 2026-10-24 (discovery C3-B976-02; sources re-fetched 2026-10-24, excerpts re-located by curator GET): C3-B046-G16-02 describes Imagen on Vertex AI as one of five vendors, with the strongest (conditional) seed promise. Google's model-versions page lists imagen-4.0-generate-001, imagen-4.0-ultra-generate-001 and imagen-3.0-generate-001/-002 under Retired models with retirement date June 30, 2026 (recommended upgrade gemini-2.5-flash-image). The deterministic-images doc page documents the seed behaviour but also carries a caution table listing imagen-3.0-generate-001/-002 and imagen-4.0-generate-001/-ultra-/-fast- as discontinued (\"before June 30, 2026\"), so the seed text is accurate only as a description of the docs for models that are now retired; the cited page already carried this caution. Checked 2026-10-24.","locator":"curator correction paragraph in this record body (C3-B976-02)","classification":"sourced_fact"},{"url":"https://docs.midjourney.com/hc/en-us/articles/32604356340877-Seeds","claim":"SUPERSEDED IN PART 2026-10-24 by curator correction C3-B976-02 (see the correction claim above); original kept for history: The five vendors state five different strengths of seed promise. Imagen on Vertex AI is the strongest but conditional: same seed gives the same images, only when addWatermark is false, and image order is not guaranteed. Adobe's Firefly API says the same seed, prompt and presets give the same image. Midjourney calls seeds the initial noise, says they are 99% identical in V8.X, not reliable across sessions and not for Turbo mode. Ideogram says only that seed is for reproducible generation and returns the seed used. The OpenAI image guide has no seed parameter in the text read.","locator":"candidate evidence excerpts","classification":"sourced_fact"}],"review":"unreviewed","execution":"not_run","inspection":"source_inspected","execution_record_ids":[]},"language":"en","categories":["T05","T20"],"extensions":{"curation/v1":{"curator":"CURATOR-A-20261021","revision":6,"topic_ids":["CAT:T05.05","CAT:T06.AIC.06"],"confidence":"Not stated; see limitations.","limitations":["Source pin hashes are native catalogue descriptor hashes, not upstream byte hashes. 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